Ali Weingroff 0:00
Awesome whoo I have got the Dave Lee back on the podcast and he is now an old man.

Dave Lee 0:11
Rebel 29 It's a the the wall is coming.

Ali Weingroff 0:15
You're so mature for your age though I'm sure you hear that all the time.

Dave Lee 0:19
Yeah, I'm like 1000 my girlfriend she's in the other room she says I'm like 1000 year old man and like a 29 year old body. Which I think that's pretty valid.

Ali Weingroff 0:29
But we've defied evolution by Gil and I giving birth to her you and I'm giving birth to Gil and girls like

Dave Lee 0:37
yeah, it was significantly older than me so for me to be his father it is it is quite an achievement.

Ali Weingroff 0:42
So today we're going to talk about ADD and ADHD because Dave is quite well versed in this as well as ways to help combat some of the symptoms or if you've been diagnosed and everything and I know I personally I was telling you I was diagnosed when I was 12. And the reason I was diagnosed because my school called my mom saying your daughter's rollerblading across the stage. And that's what decided that I should be tested for ADHD even though it's just being a kid and then lo and behold at 12 years old I go on Ritalin and had been through all the different medications but before we get into that, can you actually give the audience a definition of what is ADD or ADHD is there a difference between the two?

Dave Lee 1:31
Yeah, it's kind of gone back and forth in terms of like ADD ADHD and then which one is which so technically at the moment, you've got what's called inattentive ADHD and then hyperactive ADHD and then a combination of both. And I think that's just called the combined type of but what they used to call add being like Attention Deficit without the hyperactive is now what they call inattentive ADD or ADHD sorry, but just different terms of basically what they've found in terms of when they're looking at it clinically in terms of what presents in terms of symptoms. For those listening I just did like air quotes with my fingers symptom is basically you can either be hyperactive or you can be inattentive or you can be a combination of both and there's a huge amount of issues with the whole ADHD diagnosis treatment and so on. And the main issue in my opinion is that there's there's not really a clear diagnosis for like you meet a set of criteria you take a certain number of boxes on a diagnostic criteria and then go Yep, you've got this new psychiatric condition and you now need to take these drugs the rest your life and i think that's that's a pretty that's a pretty big leap when you have a look at the symptoms because a lot of them just come down to kids being kids or people being undisciplined or lazy or in an environment that just bores the fucking shit out of them which is probably what you were

Ali Weingroff 2:54
yeah i mean you know all girls school for for me a straight woman is pretty boring.

Dave Lee 3:02
I went to an all boys school and then you know, I had I mean, I never got diagnosed with ADHD when I was in school, like I got diagnosed with that after had a brain injury. But that's because my brain wasn't working properly. I wasn't getting proper blood flow, so I couldn't pay attention to shit. But I mean, look, looking back at how I behaved in school, I mean, I'm sure a lot of I'm sure I would have met a lot of the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. But I was just doing those things because I was bored as fuck and didn't care. And but I was making the choice to do that because I just didn't give a shit.

Ali Weingroff 3:33
I think like, nowadays, I almost feel like if you say you've been diagnosed like people very much are quick to dismiss it because of the attention span being so low as it is in modern day, I guess when you were growing up, really, because when I grew up, it was like playing outside. We didn't have cell phones. We didn't have video games to the extent that kids do now. And so being hyperactive was just that was part of my nature. I was such a hyper kid, but I just I played sports, I had energy. It wasn't like I was channeling all that energy that I had, but it seems like somehow they wanted they being like the experts or whatever wanted to harness that and medicate it And granted, I actually wrote one of my college essays on my experience taking Ritalin and how it helped me but I'm not on it now. I couldn't stay on it. It's just it's crazy that I feel like a lot of people do you feel like people are over medicated almost or have what they would term adult onset add versus kids.

Dave Lee 4:39
Yeah, and the interesting thing with the whole ADHD thing is, is in terms of how it's treated, it's still based on a hypothesis similar to how they treat a lot of major depressive cases with SSRIs because the hypothesis is that someone with ADHD likes dopamine activity, more particularly they like dopamine activity in the prefrontal cortex. It's a theory. And it's a theory that hasn't really been proven because like one thing that I'm very interested in is looking at genetics and there is no gene for ADHD there's about 50 to 100 different genes that can indicate ADHD. But there's not one that goes, Okay, we have this disruption in the dopaminergic system in this part of the brain, and then this causes ADHD, it doesn't exist. And that's, that's one of the main issues. And then you also get this a very big group of people with ADHD who do not respond well to stimulants. So then we're going okay, well, we're saying these guys have low dopamine. So let's jack that talk may not be the most pure, clean pharmaceutical way possible. And then they're not getting better now they're getting side effects. So that also throws that out the window. So I think what's going on. And this kind of segues into one, something that we talked about is this idea of ADHD, a lot of the time being misdiagnosed as stress, or stress being misdiagnosed with ADHD. And I think that there there is definitely a just like with major depression, I really do believe that there are a group of people who are truly just hyperactive ADHD and do benefit from medication, I 100% will say that same with SSRIs, there are some people who absolutely do need an SSRI, but it does not represent the amount of people that are currently being treated the medications for those conditions, it is massively, massively, mostly overly prescribed. So what we know is that if you are stress, let's say like, you know, I busted through that door with an x, right? And you didn't know me, like Greg said, that would set up some kind of fear response. And, you know, even if you thought, hey, maybe I'm going to take this guy on, maybe I could knock this kind of Puck out, regardless, you're still gonna get some kind of stress response. So what's gonna happen is that's going to trigger something in the brain called the amygdala, which is like the alarm bell of the brain. And that sends a signal down to the adrenal glands, which basically says, Hey, shit is about to go down, you need to get ready to fight or flight, body dumps cortisol and adrenaline. And then you basically get a physiological stress response. Now, what also happens when that happens is the prefrontal cortex shuts down, blood flow to the prefrontal cortex gets reduced, executive function goes down, impulse control goes down. And this is what we're seeing with ADHD is pre frontal cortex dysfunction. So one could argue that this is actually coming from a state of chronic stress, anxiety or fear. And when you talk to these people, when you talk to them, when I talk to clients about their inattentive, ADHD, again, air quotations, when I asked him, I say, you know, what's on your list of shit to do that you haven't done? And they'll say, you know, my washing or cleaning the house, or, you know, a whole bunch of boring shit, and no one wants to do? And I'll say, Are you not doing it because you're bored and you get distracted? Or you're not doing it because it stresses you out? And they'll say, It stresses me out. And that's the big difference is Yeah, it may look like they're distracted, because they're bored. But a lot of the time, it's actually because they're stressed.

Ali Weingroff 7:54
That's interesting. And it makes a lot of sense, too. Because you hear a lot adults say like, Oh, my add doesn't allow me to do this. And my add doesn't allow me to do that. discipline. Yeah. And it's almost like a blurred line. Because it's like, you know, if you say that you have a prescription for any type of add stimulant. It's almost passed out like candy in a way, you can just go to a doctor and be like, I can't focus, and then they'll hand you, you know, whichever one they feel would work for you.

Dave Lee 8:26
Yeah. And then people go that there's this theory in psychiatry, and this is one of the reasons I dropped out of neuro psychiatry because it's just rubbed me the wrong way. One of like, the the actually legitimate diagnostic criteria of ADHD is if a patient responds well to amphetamines, like, fuck it, like every single mammal in every single study will self administer amphetamine over food until they die. like humans love amphetamines, and to say, Oh, I took dex amphetamine and I got a whole bunch I cleaned my house and I felt good. So that must mean I have ADHD and needs to be like, Fuck off. That's like, there's keyless thing, diagnosed a psychiatric condition. And I think that's one of the problems is that like, you know, I've taken a good amount of dex amphetamine as an adult, like when I was doing my injury rehab, I don't think I actually could have functioned. Without it. It was very difficult to get off. But you know, for that six months, I got a fuckton of shit done. It was great. But I also experienced a hell of a lot of side effects in a lot of different ways. And it was not something that you want to be on long term. But I understand why people get very defensive over it when you when you criticize the use of these medications and go hey, maybe it's not necessary, because they go yes, I do need it because all of a sudden, you've got an excuse for lack of discipline and not doing the shit that you don't want to do. And then you can take this pill that makes doing the most boring, redundant, mundane shit, extremely enjoyable and satisfying. So I mean, I can prove Get why people love it, and I completely get why people get hooked on it. But what people need to understand, and this is the big red, this, the big red flag for amphetamines, is where like, you know, we've been treating people without betterment since like the 20s. like they've been in useful, pretty much 100 years now, where the fuck of a long term follow up studies demonstrating safety and efficacy, there are not because they know that when they do those long term studies, they're going to that's going to be neurotoxicity 100%. So they're not going to pay for that. But the fact that there is nothing to show you, hey, these medications are definitely not neurotoxic in the long term. And they've been around for this long. I mean, that's a big red flag.

Ali Weingroff 10:38
Can Can we go over kind of the top medications that are used, because I know people know, Adderall, and they know Ritalin, and some people know vyvanse. And kind of like an overview of the differences and like the detriments to those. Okay,

Dave Lee 10:57
so there's a bunch. So the first one is something called strict Tierra. This is like a no record, norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. It's more in it's not really in the stimulant class of medication. And it doesn't really get used very often. So I'm not really going to talk about that one. Because mainly when we think ADHD, we think stimulants. So there are three classes of medication used for ADHD down the middle, because each of these medications has left and right isomer, which are basically like mirror images of the same molecule that was similar, but different shit. So a good example is something like Adderall. So Adderall is a mix of lipo and vitamin and dex amphetamine, whereas something like vyvanse or just dex amphetamine in Australia is pure dex amphetamine. So dex amphetamine and and vyvanse. Basically direct central nervous system stimulus. So they primarily activate the central nervous system, whereas leivo, amphetamine activates the peripheral nervous system. This is why Adderall, you feel more in your body, because you're not only getting a central nervous system stimulation, but you're getting more peripheral effects. So you're getting more, you know, people often on Adderall will report that it makes them a bit more like sweaty, or they can feel it more in their body or they get shaky and they get hypertension and all these different things. And you can definitely get that from dex amphetamine and vyvanse have been taken off. And I really don't think that there is a therapeutic application for the peripheral nervous system stimulation. I really don't, maybe in the case of extreme narcolepsy, but in that case, I mean, I'd be more able to get fibroid. So you've got the amphetamine class of medication, which is Adderall. dex amphetamine, vyvanse. vyvanse is a stained release version of dex amphetamine, it's bound to the molecule lysine, it's just basically so you can't rail it. That's pretty much what it is. It's also a sustained release. But if you look into the data, the sustained release mechanisms bullshit. And then you've also got methamphetamine which you can get prescribed in America for if you don't respond properly to Adderall. So you should now get which is great because it'll just completely bypass the blood brain barrier and give you some wicked neurotoxicity long term so but they get they are impediments and then you've got methylphenidate which is Ritalin. And Ritalin comes in instant release, extended release, and consider which if you go on YouTube, you can see this really cool video where basically like, they stick they simulate a concert or release in the stomach and it basically like pops this little hole in the top of them like pieces out like Ritalin for like eight hours. It's very cool. And then there's actually one that a lot of people don't know about, which is the dex amphetamine version of methylphenidate, which is called focalin and focalin It is like Ritalin, but it doesn't stimulate the peripheral nervous system. So it's a lot smoother. I think that has some that probably has the greatest therapeutic application of all the ADHD medications, but I've never tried it or experienced it with my clients because it's not available in Australia. And then lastly, the last class of medication of ADHD, which is my favorite is modafinil. So you've got modafinil and armodafinil. And with daffodil, technically on stimulants that wakefulness promoting agents, which is just another way of saying it's a stimulant or that

Ali Weingroff 14:26
wakefulness promoting,

Dave Lee 14:29
wakefulness promoting agent, fuck off, it's a fucking stimulant. And modafinil offers some cool benefits because it's got a really fucking long half life. It's neuroprotective. It enhances your cognition, it's actually been shown it didn't actually get approved for this but they actually looked at making it a legally approved this module. But it did not back for that approval, but the studies were very promising on it. But what modafinil is doing is it's not as strong as the other ones so it's not as rigid and what it's doing in the brain. So it's more of like a back seat help to help you move forward. And I think that that's where the real benefit lies in these treatments is having something that doesn't keep you in the ass when it wears off in the evening and make you feel like dogshit and go through withdrawal. So it's something that it doesn't do the work for you, it just kind of holds your hand so that you can develop, you know, the skills and the processes and the routines that you need, without essentially elevating your dopamine levels in the brain to like three to 10 times the proper concentrations, which I think is the risk of using stuff like amphetamine Lewton. That was a big fucking round.

Ali Weingroff 15:32
No, but that I mean it. I don't think really people know the differences nor the many options that are available for this. And I've told people, like on stories and stuff, and I've done podcasts where I've talked about my history with this because people I think I can be a long term study. So I'm going to be 40 in a couple of weeks. I was medicated with Ritalin when I was 12. So I go to college, and I didn't I was so naive. I didn't know people like sold it and bought it. And like people are like, Oh, you have Ritalin? I'm like yeah, okay, now I gotta hide it. But then I felt like I got out of college and it stopped working. So of course, I tell my psychiatrist this and you know, the next best medicine is Adderall. And he put me on 20 milligrams of Adderall twice a day. Now. It was instant release. Yeah. Dude, 20 milligrams. Now I'm a trainer, I'm getting up at like, 430. So I'm flying high. I'm in the best mood, by noon, crash, I wouldn't want to pick up my phone. I didn't want to talk to anybody. I was in the worst mood. But then you take it again, and it all comes back. And then you crash and then you can't sleep. And I was like, this doesn't work. Okay, let's try vyvanse vyvanse just came out, like you said, so you can't snort Adderall. But not that I was snorting it but still 30 milligrams, I think it was the lowest dose. And I was on that for a good five or six years. And then I would go crazy, because I was like, I don't need this. I want to wean myself off of this because I don't want to be dependent on it for the rest of my life. So I started not taking it on the weekends. And it was like this adrenaline dump where I would sleep until three o'clock. And it wasn't because I was partying, I was partying, but not like sleeping till three, that's not normal. And slowly I cut back and slowly I cut back and I was off all of the amphetamines, I was totally fine until I had breast implants. And then I decided I had to go back on Adderall just because I couldn't function. And that was only five milligrams. But to go through that, and then have clients now who are like, I can't sleep. I hate being on Add meds and knowing that there's a way that you can actually come off of it. Because it's not a life or death medication, you can still function you may not be able to laser focus and crack yourself out. We have rain for that we have bang for that dollar pre workouts. So that being said, like can you go into some alternatives for people as far as like herbs and nootropics and stuff that they can look at so they don't develop these long term side effects.

Dave Lee 18:15
So Oh explain for us wide doors like amphetamines to therapy. And I think amphetamines are therapeutic is that the difference between stuff like methylphenidate, which is Ritalin, and even modafinil as well in terms of one of its mechanisms is that there are what are called re uptake inhibitors. So that methylphenidate is a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. modafinil is a very concentrated very specific dopamine reuptake inhibitor. And so what they're doing is they're not giving you rewards for free, they're making the stuff that is already rewarding, more rewarding. So if something is a real uptake inhibitor, it's not creating more dopamine, it's blocking its metabolism. So if you basically what this translates to is this, this stuff won't get you off the couch, it won't get you a buzz. But once you get going and do the tasks and do the shit that you don't want to do, it will make it more rewarding for you. So you're more likely to see it through to me that that creates a therapeutic process because now the person is going to be more motivated to build the behaviors and do the shit that they want to do. Because all of a sudden, these mundane tasks are these things that they didn't want to do in previously. And now more rewarding. That makes sense. amphetamine is a re uptake inhibitor, but it's also a releasing agent. So not only does it block the metabolism of dopamine, it makes your brain piss it out for no reason, meaning that you can just sit on the couch and your brain is going to be pumping out more dopamine for no reason. This means that to get the benefit of this, you have to be very disciplined in what you do. Because you'd be able to get just as much of a reward from doing your homework or doing the housework as you were sitting on the couch jerking off. It's going to give you the same reward for free and I think that that really helped emanates a lot of the therapeutic potential here. Because a lot of the time people with ADHD or people with issues with, you know, regulating impulse control can be quite hedonistic. And I think that amphetamine can even make you more humanistic. So I think that can be a problem. So the way that I look at it is we need to increase the health of the brain, we need to reduce inflammation in the brain. And then we need to reduce stress so that we can increase blood flow to the prefrontal cortex. And I think that's the best way to look at ADHD. I think it's also nice to have something like, I think, you know, I recommend I don't recommend everyone does this, but I like people to have the option to do this is to have something like, definitely have a tool. So that you know, if you do have a big day, if you do have a whole list of shit coming up that you don't like you don't want to do or you do have like something that is very big, you do have something there that you can use rather than drinking like eight to 10 cups of coffee, which I think is a good option. But I think using a daily high dose stimulant is probably not a good idea. Because stimulants don't give you energy, they just make you put the gas pedal down, you're just borrowing energy from the future, meaning you have to pay it back. Like when you were taking vyvanse like 30 milligrams of vitamins is only like five or six milligrams of amphetamine. So you were taken fuckable and yet on the weekend, you were still absolutely fucking wrecked, because you'd have to borrow all this energy from the future and your body basically had to go to a rebound. So I think it's important when we're looking at stuff that we use daily and consistently, it needs to be stuff that doesn't create kind of a debt. It's something that boosts it's a precursor nutrients, it boosts the brain's health blood flow activity function reduces stress, but it leaves you better than you found it. So once they were off, you're in a better position than when you were before you took the supplements rather than being on a come down because for me, like, I can't look at amphetamine as a medicine because it's not fixing a problem. And when it wears off, you're worse off and when you start with that that's not a fucking medicine. So I think there's categories that you can look at. I think one thing that works very well is the adaptogenic Herbes, which I don't like the marketing term, but you know, they do offer some very useful function in reducing stress and helping people focus. So there's one that I recommended for you which was the am priming stack, which is a blend of like rhodiola, rosea, ashwagandha and holy basil, which is also known as Tulsi, the latter to reduce cortisol and stress, whereas rhodiola rosea is quite energizing. So you're getting that kind of yin and yang approach that can be very useful as a non stimulant pick me up, that kind of reduces stress and allows the individual to have more energy and focus. But then I also like getting people to precursor nutrients for the brain. So stuff that helps the brain create dopamine and Coleen and Alcatel, carnitine and all these different neurotransmitters that basically allows your brain to function at the peak of what it could naturally produce. And then you've also got the anti inflammatories. So stuff like NFL cysteine even you could argue Metformin has an application here. And then of course, optimizing your hormone levels so that your neurotransmitters are actually getting released properly in accordance to when they should be released. Because neurotransmitters are a massive, massive level for sorry, hormones are a massive, massive level of neurotransmitters like the amount of people who were diagnosed with inattentive ADHD who were just hypothyroid is absurd. Like I have I have seen so many men who are like, yeah, I've been on your index amphetamine for X number of years or Ritalin for y number of years. And I'm like, cool, what's your thyroid function like and they're like, well, and then we check the thyroid function the TSH is like a four that three t three is at the bottom of the reference range, and then you put them on thyroid and then all of a sudden they're like I actually feel good I feel normal and I don't need this shit anymore.

Ali Weingroff 23:42
Yeah, that's where I wanted to go next was the relationship with hormones But before that, how long because you know someone will ask is how long does that process take? I'm sure it's dependent on how long somebody has been on a certain medication. But getting them off of that and transitioning to some of these other alternatives. Is it a tough transition for a lot of people or do they find it rather easy? It

Dave Lee 24:09
really depends on on what's going on like if, like if they're banned, aiding some like severe metabolic syndrome. Or you know that they've got some severe issues with like their diet and lifestyle. It can be pretty rough, especially if you're taking high doses, I had to come off dex amphetamine for the Ayahuasca ceremony that I did the first one. And I mean, that was that was one of the best things ever because I had to come off a cold turkey, which was rough, but I remember also reintroducing it afterwards and being like, Whoa, this is not where I want to be taking my cognition in my brain. So it was a very good wake up but I remember the first 10 to 12 days were pretty dogshit but particularly the first three to four days were pretty bad, but I think there is a hump that you get over pretty quick and then in terms of rebuilding The brain and readjusting to a lower level of baseline dopamine and then integrating that into your behaviors and tasks. Like. I mean, it could be a six month thing, it could be a six week thing, I think it would really depend on the individual and where they're at.

Ali Weingroff 25:15
Yeah, of course, yeah. It's one of those things, too, that messes with people's sleep and their sleep patterns. And, you know, like you said, like, when I had breast implants, and then I went back on Adderall, I was only taking five milligrams. And then when I got my implants taken out, I was able to actually adapt and get off of it again. And it was like this new feeling. But you do have to work at it. And you do have to be aware of like what you're putting in your body. And I think people obviously just always want to take a pill. But it's finding the right practitioner who understands the right combination of things for you, which you seem to obviously understand very well. But when people are struggling with their sleep, how do you help guide them with that if they are still taking the stimulants, and they're working their way off of it?

Dave Lee 26:08
Yeah, you're right. My dad is a principal, and he's always been a school principal, since I was a kid. And he was apparently he now tells me that he was always telling parents, you know, when their kids needed to go on Ritalin, and he was making that call, like, he'd call them in and be like, you have your kids really hyperactive, and he's on Ritalin, blah, blah, blah. Because as an educator, he'd say, Oh, you put that annoying as fuck kid on Ritalin. And now that easy to teach, this is the best thing in the world. So he was still doing that over here. And over here in Lithuania, when I first came to visit him. And over here, ADHD is not recognized not a thing. You can't get diagnosed with ADHD and you can't get amphetamines. It doesn't exist. We use peptides to heal the child's brain, which makes options amazing. Exactly. So anyway, he was like, he had apparently spent like weeks or months like trying to find some kind of Doctor Who would scrape scripture Ritalin, and he finally found one. So I heard about this before I came over. And I managed to legally Of course, source a 16 milligram concert, a tablet, which is like the lowest dose of extended released Ritalin that you can get in this form. And you take this, and he's 110 kilo mat, and this is the dose that they would give a very small chart. I said, you take this, and then tomorrow, you make a decision if you still want to prescribe this fortune. So he was like, Okay, cool. So he takes it that day, and he was fucking firing on all cylinders at work. He was just like King Kong, he was just like, I am the shit. I am, right. It's the best thing in the world. Like, why are we all taking this? Why didn't I take this earlier? I had to console that man for hours that evening. Because it was. And he was like, this is what we're putting children through every night when this medication wears off. And I'm like, Yeah, because when you go up that high, you must come down, and he's never recommended it since because that come down was so bad. He was so anxious and so stressed and had constant insomnia for the entire night because he was coming down off this of this methylphenidate. And that's what a lot of people don't see is the evening because what a lot of people have with ADHD, whether it's inattentive or hyperactive as they have a hyperactive mind. So the inner monologue is just going through. And it's often not forming a cohesive thought pattern. It's often very chaotic. So it's like infrequent thoughts to kind of break off onto new thoughts. And for people who haven't practiced mindfulness meditation, haven't learned to regulate the breath and so forth. It can be quite distressing to deal with. So if that's part of your normal ADHD symptoms set, then when your medications were off, it's going to be much, much, much worse. And this can be the biggest challenge of people with ADHD in terms of falling asleep, because their mind goes down so many rabbit holes that they can't focus on just lying still and falling asleep. So I mean, some people even say that they can take a nap on the index amphetamine because their mind was so quiet and that makes sense. So what I recommend people do with ADHD, whether you are on medication or not, and you're looking for something to help you sleep. The first one is phosphor deetle searing and I know Andrew Schumann talked about this in his recent podcast on ADHD. I did a lecture on this on YouTube about six or seven months ago, and I've been using this since like 2012 2013. This is one of my favorite supplements, but particularly for people with ADHD because it has been clinically shown to be effective. And what it does is it basically re sensitizes your body to cortisol. So basically, it makes your body more sensitive to cortisol, like Metformin makes you more sensitive to insulin. So it stops your body from over producing stress hormones. Very, very good to take in the evening. It's not going to have like a brick to the head put you to sleep effect, but it is going to send to you and calm you very good. How about the training as well. And then what works very well with that for ADHD. If you're taking medication is using vitamin C 500 milligrams to a gram of vitamin C will help to metabolize the remaining amphetamine in the system and get it out. A lot of people don't know that that will actually increase the metabolite rate. So it's a very good thing to take in the evening, like a little glass of orange juice or something before you go to bed can help you flush out the end of that amphetamine metabolite. And then like four to 600 milligrams of magnesium glycinate, or like a lower dose of magnesium three and eight can also be very helpful for sleep. And then a lot of people with ADHD, in terms of the studies also have genetic issues producing melatonin. So an instant release, one to 10 milligrams of melatonin, depending on the individual can be very helpful with sleep onset. So basically, melatonin and magnesium helps you fall asleep, foster care helps you stay asleep.

Ali Weingroff 30:48
Like that, um, when it comes to totally lost my train of thought, I've add, um, was I gonna say, Oh, so with with the optimization of thyroid, can you kind of clear or clarify or elaborate on how that works and how, how you can tell where with somebody, they just need some thyroid medicine, as opposed to a stimulant, or whatever.

Dave Lee 31:18
So thyroid is extremely important for governing the function of your metabolism. So it's kind of like your engine, like your engine fire. So if you've got a low functioning shitty engine, your metabolism is going to be crap. And if your energy metabolism is crap, you're going to be stressed. But your brain is also not going to be getting as much nutrition as it should as well. So what seems to happen with thyroid is, when you're in a hypothyroid state, your body still has to produce the energy that it requires to do what you need to do. So for example, if I busted in that door with that axe, and even if you had zero thyroid function, let's say you had to remove, you'd still be able to dump enough stress hormone to get you the fuck out of that, or at least make an effort. And that's because the adrenals will kick in and do that work to keep you alive. So what tends to happen with people who are hypothyroid is they tend to have hyper adrenal ism, because the adrenals tend to take over the function of the shitty thyroid because you still got to do what you need to do when you need to do it. So something has to kick in. So it's kind of like your backup engine kicks in. And this causes elevated stress hormones, which will then shut down the prefrontal cortex. So the cool thing about thyroid is that is pro metabolic. So it's pro and energizing, but it also reduces the body stress. So you'd have something that gives you more energy and gives you less stress is something that people are basically looking for with caffeine, but they're getting the stress from the caffeine. So thought hyperthyroidism is often self medicated with excessive caffeine consumption. But it does present as inattentive. ADHD, because the main symptoms of it, low energy, lack of ability to concentrate, and low motivation, because you just don't have the leftover fuel, the energy, the resilience to do shit outside of what you need to do to survive. So these people will tend to be very lethargic, not be able to maintain focus, and even just not give a fuck enough to do the things that they should be doing. But it's because the engine is not running properly. So what we should be doing is upgrading and improving the engine with something like thyroid hormone, rather than just pushing down that gas pedal as hard as we possibly can with amphetamine.

Ali Weingroff 33:24
That makes total sense. Obviously, that's not the norm for protocol in America, at least. So what about testosterone and sex hormones? Do they play a role in it?

Dave Lee 33:36
Yeah, they all do. So testosterone, d h, GA, pregnenolone, progesterone, and thyroid hormone all antagonize the functions of cortisol when in different ways. So they're all anti stress in different ways. And when we're looking at stuff like da, da, da, da, in particular, is their own neurosteroids in different ways. So they all they all have varying effects on neurotransmitter function, but both d h EA and d h EA sulfate have different roles in the production, the stimulation of dopamine. So when you have deficient levels of any of these hormones, I mean testosterone increases dopamine transmission, thyroid increases dopamine transmission, da ga dopamine production. pregnenolone seems to reduce prolactin. So there's all these different functions that these hormones have on neurotransmitter production. And that's why would have been hot which is why I dropped down from here psychiatry is if someone is having issues with their neurotransmitters, which has never been proven as the root cause of shit, but that's what basing a lot of these treatments of is we should be looking at. Why do they have lower levels of neurotransmitters because I have absolutely no doubt that if someone lost their family in a car crash and went bankrupt the same day they would have lower serotonin. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that that is part of the reason that they feel shit. Similarly, if I came up and punched you in the arm, you'd have a whole bunch of signals going out to your body that hey, there's pain here. Absolutely, but there's a reason why those things are there. If you go through tragedy, you're gonna have low serotonin. If I punch you in the in the arm, you're going to have pain receptors firing in the body, it makes sense. But we've got to look at why are those levels low in the first place? And if someone suffers tragedy, that makes sense. That makes sense. But when we're looking at people going, Okay, this person's clearly got low levels of neurosteroid. And neurotransmitter levels in the brain, we can't just assume that they were broken from birth, I think that's a stupid way of looking at it going, Oh, they've got chemical imbalance in the brain, their brains fucked, it's like not really, there's probably a reason for it. And these hormones are levers that sit above the brain, they dictate and allow for neurotransmitter production and metabolism. So we must be looking at going okay, where are the hormone levels at. And if there are deficiencies, and they line up with the symptoms, then they should be treated because your body has receptors and makes these hormones on its own. The body doesn't make methylphenidate. It doesn't make him better mean what it does make his thyroid DHT a testosterone. And I mean, if you if you go back far enough in the medical literature, pregnenolone and da ga would use to treat mood disorders. Wow. used to treat depression, they were used to treat anxiety. We know that these very, very strongly impact mood in the brain. And we've just completely changed the way that we treat these conditions.

Ali Weingroff 36:20
Yeah, oh my gosh, that and I know there's tests out there that do test neuro transmitters, are those worth doing?

Dave Lee 36:27
Either dogshit? Or then you can measure your neurotransmitters if we cut you open and did an autopsy?

Ali Weingroff 36:34
Can we do that?

Dave Lee 36:35
I mean, maybe we could, I mean, I'm sure that that they'd have some degree of accuracy. But they'd have that degree of accuracy at that point in time. They're not showing a snapshot. I mean, these, these neurotransmitters have very short half lives. So I mean, yeah, you could you could piss in a vial or however they rep they however they do it. I think they even do half strand tests and just don't get. And it's like, Okay, cool. You might have that neurotransmitter profile now, but doesn't mean shit in the future.

Ali Weingroff 37:05
Because then I mean, isn't it related to your genetics anyway? Like, does it go? Is there a connection with you know, mthfr is one, you know, people know is popular with the CEO, MT like that type of relationship.

Dave Lee 37:21
Yeah, so if you've got enzymes that break down your returns within brands, you've got like, come to me obey me, you'd be the main ones if you look at. And then people have different levels of those enzymes. So for example, I've got what's called the warrior gene, which is Rs four 680 from memory. And what this means is that I have high levels of co2 in the brain, which means that my brain breaks down dopamine faster than the average person's brain. So but that looking at just that one thing is not going to dictate, I've got low dopamine, because I might have more sensitive D two receptors, or I might have less autoreceptors. Or I might have a higher production of tyrosine hydroxylase, which is what's used to make l dopa, like, there's all these different factors. So I mean, if you have a perfect storm of and then potentially maybe, but then if I look at that and go, Okay, so my brain metabolizes dopamine faster, which means that at baseline, I am more disposed to being entered clinical board, and I can tell you that for sure, I get bored through the ease. But what tends to happen, and people would just worry, again, is that we thrive in stressful situations. So I mean, I spent eight years on stage as a singer, and that was when I felt the most relaxed, like I was very good at battering with the crowd, like, I've always been a good public speaker. I've always been a risk taker, I've always been someone that goes out and does these things. So is that a bad thing? That depends what I'm doing. Like, if you put me in like a nine to five office job entering data, I couldn't do it. Like I wouldn't be able to do it would drive me insane. But that doesn't mean there's something wrong with me, it just means that you know, if you pumped us into a combat situation, or into a military or something like that, I'd outperform everyone else in the office, because that's what my genetics are built for. So did I descend from people who did different things we don't know, we have theories, but we don't know. But there are a whole bunch of these people who have brains, and they have neurotransmitter metabolism profiles, and then just put in the wrong environment. And it doesn't mean that you're better or worse or anything, it just means that you're a different kind of person. But we're all kind of put in the same box at the moment. And I think that this is the advantage of, you know, kind of weird, I guess things are kind of gone in the last couple of years in terms of more online business, more social media business, more entrepreneurs and people doing their own thing is now people can kind of branch out and do that stuff on their own and really thrive in these areas and not be so confined to these, you know, little boxes that we've been putting.

Ali Weingroff 39:42
Do you think it's useful to do genetic testing for reasons like that?

Dave Lee 39:47
I think it's cool. I don't think it's that useful. I think it's cool because it helps you understand stuff about yourself. And you get some you get some cool insights from doing genetic testing, but it doesn't really solve any big major problems for me. And a lot of people who have done like a lot of genetic work with it more just creates acceptance around why you are the way you are like I've got some clients who their genetics basically show that they need to do more cardio to burn fat, and dropping calories down does not work anywhere near as well for them as increasing cardio. So they would always wonder why, you know, they have to do tons of cardio to burn fat and we go, okay, it's actually genetic, you're actually counting your calories while you're doing all that stuff, well, you just got a different genetic profile for fat loss. So it is cool to understand these things. But it more just explains to you that you are the person that you are. And that's okay, and you. And this is what I really believe in terms of looking at genetics. And I really, really do believe this is that, because we're all sitting here today, like you and I are sitting here having this conversation, it means that we are the dominant bloodline from the last X amount of years of evolution, we'll call it 6 million. So it means that of all the battles and all the famines and all the plagues and all the backend epidemics, our bloodline survived, and so therefore, we are the dominant bloodline, which means that we are capable to be the pinnacle of human evolution. So if we are living in accordance with how we are meant to be genetically, and we are in synergy with our purpose and our genetic makeup, then we should be able to be the peak of human evolution, and we should be able to thrive at a very, very high level. So I think that when people are struggling, and when people that are not doing well, it's because that, you know, they're putting diesel in an unleaded car, you know, that they're putting the wrong fuel in, or they're driving a sports car or an all terrain road, it's just the wrong, they're in the wrong place at the wrong point.

Ali Weingroff 41:39
This is, like fascinating, and it just makes me think that how many people out there are so unaware of their potential in various areas that that all they know, is just to Medicaid. That's it.

Dave Lee 41:53
Yeah. And I think that the problem is when you do that is that, you know, if I went into that office desk job, I'd be uncomfortable. That's what the situation would be, because I'd suck at doing what I was doing, and I'd hate doing it. And it would just be sheer. So it would create a feel it would create a whole bunch of different emotions, but it all comes down to the fact that it would be uncomfortable. Now, if I took a bunch of dex amphetamine, I could nail that job, and I could probably do it better than everyone in that office, because I'd be high as a fucking cut. Yeah, problem is that that discomfort is a very, very powerful teacher, because that's not what I meant to be fucking doing. I meant to be out doing this, having conversations like this, you know, training, fighting, like doing the stuff that I really enjoy doing. But if I had gone down the route, like when I was in high school, being like, oh, he he doesn't go to class, and he goes and plays music all day, and all that kind of stuff, he needs medication, then I wouldn't be doing this, I'd be doing some fucking corporate job that I'd be nailing while I was on my medication. But then when that medication were off, I'd be a useless sack of shit. Not being able to live the life that I'd built without my little stimulants.

Ali Weingroff 43:00
It's crazy. I'm the same way I can't sit. Like when I have to sit for two or three hours to do client work or whatever. I'm like, I gotta go walk around. That's why I walk circles around my complex. I look like a nutjob. But I can't like you were stimulated with movement. And that's how we get like gain our most clarity and everything,

Dave Lee 43:19
do you I mean, for me personally, like when I do consultations and client work, like I always have 30 minute breaks between all my sessions, and I get up and stretch my walk. Because I know it's really good for my body and my metabolism and so on. But I can't sit here all day and do conversations I can when I need to. But I don't feel good when I do it. Like I get signals in my body going up. This isn't this isn't right. And you know that working with my dad school over here, like, you know, they're having a lot of ADHD kids with, you know, hyperactivity. And then I'm looking at the daily structure. I'm like, why don't you Why don't you exercise them three times a day? He goes, Oh, we can't do you know why? Why can you exercise children three times a day, if you had dogs and they were, you know, trashing the house and shitting everywhere, you'd be like, okay, we need to take them for more walks. So if your kids aren't sitting down and doing that little fucking mass timetables, and they're all playing and getting hyperactive, maybe you need to gas them out and exercise them and maybe you need to do that regularly. And maybe the human being wasn't built at childhood to sit behind a fucking desk. It's just common sense. Like women to move we were meant like our ancestors walked like eight to nine hours a day. Like we're meant to be moving women to be walking. So I mean, I think it's just that there are some people who thrive sitting on their ass doing boring jobs and that is fantastic. If that's your thing, then do your thing. And there's nothing wrong with that. But for the people who don't, it's you've got to build a life where you can you can thrive and you know, when I was working in a not for profit organization doing like Marketing Management when I was in my rehab like three days a week. I would go to do an hour on the cross train in the morning, and then I lift weights for an hour in the evening. So I have a 10 hour workday. And that was great because I was I but I needed to do two hours apart. exercise to sit in the fucking chair and look at a computer for seven and a half hours and I think that that's normal.

Ali Weingroff 45:05
Yeah, yeah. I can't imagine Do you still have the photos of you from when you're when you were a musician on your Instagram?

Dave Lee 45:14
Yeah if people scroll down far enough you've got all my photos from when I first made an Instagram account my first Instagram photo from like 2010 is like a photo of like two pieces of toast a glass of milk being like just what your moments use Instagram for and I took a photo of my breakfast.

Ali Weingroff 45:28
You have to scroll I remember you told me to scroll down I was like, this is a different person first of all, this guy that that guy even lift ever.

Dave Lee 45:37
I did. I'd been missing for like eight years at that point. Yeah. God woke you up. But yeah, I mean, like, you should delete them. Like because you're doing this professionally now. And I'm like that.

Ali Weingroff 45:50
It's I mean, I'm sure you can give great recommendations on eyeliner two.

Dave Lee 45:55
Yeah, my favorite was Estee Lauder.

Ali Weingroff 45:59
I freakin love it. Oh, my gosh, well, this has been, you know, awesome. I can talk to you forever, because we're like BFFs now, you know, because our son Gil, he's thriving. But you know, you guys don't know this, but that this show is booked on Friday. It's Friday, September 24. And one of the members of our TRT and hormone optimization group has suffered a very bad accident. And Dave set up this entire day to do consults with people where he is donating all the proceeds to mark commodities, GoFundMe, which I think is exceptionally generous, and he would not mention it, so I'm going to mention it. So I figured that we would book a podcast and I will link marks go fund me on the show notes in case you guys feel compelled to donate. He's a great dude. Very selfless. I've spoken to him on the phone. He's so generous with his time. He's just an unbelievable human. So Dave, thank you for taking the time and doing that for everybody today.

Dave Lee 47:04
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm happy to help. Like when I saw the photo of him like I remember being in hospital like that and feeling like that. And yeah, I mean, I fuckin bankrupted myself hard going through going through rehab. So yeah, I think today we raised like nine to 10. Canadian. So I think it was like 900. Canadian, which would, you're a sizable chunk. Oh, so thank you for that. And, yeah, Mark, Mark reached out the other day, saying thank you, and then he'd received it, and he was really touched.

Ali Weingroff 47:32
That's awesome. And so if people want to book a consultation with you And guys, I'll let you know I have a consultation personally booked with Dave because they do think he is a freaking smart person. And he's going to help me and already has helped me with a lot of things. Where can people find you?

Dave Lee 47:50
Yes, you can find me at Advanced fundamental health calm, you can book in with me through that. If you're in the various Facebook groups, that I'm admitting you can just drop me a message on their Instagram. Daily coaching, or email is daily coaching@gmail.com.

Ali Weingroff 48:08
Perfect. Please book now he books up quite quickly. And he will also be one of my featured interviews for testosterone School, which I do anticipate having to pop a few Adderall to sit and do that, but that's okay. Right.

Dave Lee 48:22
That's a that's a response to the drug use.

Ali Weingroff 48:25
Exactly. Awesome. Thank you, Dave

Dave Lee 48:28
Thank you.